Allerseelen on Tour: Austrian Far-Right Musical Project on West Coast Tour, Playing Support to Northwest Heavy Metal Act

Allerseelen on Tour: Austrian Far-Right Musical Project on West Coast Tour, Playing Support to Northwest Heavy Metal Act 12/13/2010

57 Comments

This December, the Austrian far-Right “post-industrial” and martial music project Allerseelen is set to give a series of performances on the US West Coast. Allerseelen is the project of Gerhard Petak (AKA Kadmon and Gerhard Hallstatt) who also incorporates other performers into the act when playing live. Several of the Allerseelen shows are scheduled to take place in larger venues supporting the prominent Portland, Oregon “dark metal” group Agalloch, who will be touring to promote their new album. The hitching of Allerseelen onto the tour of a larger heavy metal act will provide new outlets for Petak’s extreme-Right messages. Agalloch, the group which Allerseelen will support, is at present crossing over from underground cult status to something nearer the mainstream, the group’s latest album even being promoted with a write-up and “exclusive first listen” on National Public Radio’s music webpage. It is troubling that the accompanying act Agalloch chose to expose its growing audiences to, has a long history of far-Right involvement and propaganda, and is an attempt to make aspects of fascist discourse acceptable. (Allerseelen will first play two separate headlining shows before joining the Agalloch tour.) Agalloch’s decision to further link itself to Petak / Allerseelen by appearing on a new compilation CD released by Petak’s label, is likewise of concern to anti-fascists and is of similar poor judgment.

Linked below you will find an article describing Gerhard Petak's far-right political views and associations—while Petak has had contact with some people who could be fairly described as Nazis or neo-Nazis, Petak has also criticized the Third Reich in print, and we do not describe him personally as a Nazi. We place Petak’s viewpoints and advocacy on the terrain of neo-fascism and the far-Right, especially that of the European New Right. Some other ideological influences will be discussed in passing. If at times Petak’s viewpoints appear as a jumble of varied and even opposing influences, it is worth noting that fascism has always been a syncretic ideological movement—one that attempts to fuse differing elements into a single whole. Indeed, this syncretic nature has given rise to one of fascism’s primary qualities, that of simultaneously being “A and not A” and often harboring diametrically opposed impulses, such as attempting mass political mobilization while also vocalizing contempt for mass society. These contradictions unfortunately do not render fascism or fascist politics harmless.

The dates of Allerseelen’s tour are:

Waldteufel + Allerseelen:
15 Dec 2010 Portland
16 Dec 2010 Salem (+ HELL, Barghest)

Agalloch + Allerseelen:
17 Dec 2010 Portland OR Berbati's Pan (+ Aerial Ruin)
18 Dec 2010 Seattle WA Neumo’s (+ Alda + Waldteufel)
21 Dec 2010 Los Angeles CA Ultra Violet Social Club (+ Winterthrall)
22 Dec 2010 San Francisco CA Great American Music Hall (+ Dispirit)

We invite Agalloch to clarify its position towards the far-Right and fascism, and to indicate what precisely it meant by promoting Allerseelen to its audience. We furthermore invite Nanotear Booking Agency—Agalloch’s agent and responsible for the Agalloch / Allerseelen shows—to make clear why it has adopted a fascist-friendly policy of giving a platform to far-Right ideologues such as Allerseelen.

Statement on Allerseelen Tour

Comments

Oz Tech

12/13/2010 10:31pm

Witch Hunt

antifascist

12/14/2010 7:15am

As "Oz Tech" appears to be a pseudonym for Aesop Dekker--the drummer for Agalloch--one has to wonder whether this is an official statement from the group.

It is a shame to see the victim pose being taken, rather than any of the substantive criticism being addressed.

Arrowyn link

12/14/2010 3:22pm

I am choosing to make a response to these allegations for myself as editor of Hex magazine. I do not speak for anyone else.

I, like you (whoever you are "antifascist"), am opposed to fascism and racism. I despise anyone telling me or anyone else what to believe, what to think, who to associate with, what music to listen to, or what books to read. I despise anyone putting words into my mouth, or beliefs into my head. I will challenge people when they make blanket statements about another group of people, based on any arbitrary category, be it race, gender, religion, or culture.

However, I do not use the techniques of what I oppose to oppose it. I do not seek out all that is different than me and force it to be the same. I do not choose to only associate with people who share my exact beliefs or opinions. I do not publicly harass people who have said things that I disagree with. I do not use propaganda to convince others that people I personally disagree with should be their enemy.

As for your statement, your jumps in logic are mind-boggling.

For example:
1. Amie von Rautmann was one of the founders of Hex magazine. This is true.
2. Her husband bought tickets years ago to see someone talk who holds the belief that the holocaust didn't happen (according to your own statement, I do not know if this is true, but the fact that you claim to know this is a bit creepy).
3. Gerhard Hallstatt has submitted articles to Hex magazine. This is also true.

According to your logic, it therefore follows that Hex magazine is run by people who deny the holocaust, and must be fascists. And since Gerhard published articles in our magazine he must also be a fascist. Or is it the other way around? Since Gerhard has published articles in other magazines that you claim hold beliefs that are in alignment with the New Right, AND he published articles in Hex magazine, then Hex magazine must be in alignment with the New Right.

Of course, you don't actually come out and make an actual statement that can be disproven. You use innuendo and association and leave it up to the reader to make *your* obvious conclusion.

Your "exhaustive" research, I notice, stops just short of actually reading and considering anything that might not hold up the substantiality of your claims. For were you to read all 7 issues of Hex magazine from cover to cover, you would not find anything remotely supporting this implication of fascism. You would not find anything even mentioning the holocaust, Nazis, racism, or the European New Right. Because our magazine has absolutely nothing to do with those things.

Gerhard has submitted 3 articles to Hex magazine, and they were all about personal life experiences with death, nature, and spirituality. Is he a fascist? I don't know, but you seem to. You seem to know what he's going to think or feel even before he does himself.

Is one of the former editors of my magazine a fascist? I don't know, you should ask her yourself, because we didn't ever discuss that in our 3 years of almost daily interaction, as fascism is not the subject matter of our magazine.

You also go to great lengths to remove any possibility of complexity or doubt by repeating admonitions to not be fooled by contradictory statements. Do not be fooled when people make claims that they are not fascists, or statements in opposition to Nazi culture or beliefs.

Do not believe the witch when she denies being a witch. Don't let her speak or defend herself, she might be putting a spell on you. Only holding her under water will prove her guilt.

What really cracks me up about all of this is that the far right have accused Hex of being far left. But it just goes to show that neither of you has obviously ever read it. Furthermore, your gross misrepresentation of Hex without having ever read it, puts all of your statements in question.

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
~ Friedrich Nietzsche

~Arrowyn Craban
Administrator // Editor // Creative Director
Hex Magazine
http://www.hexmagazine.com

Nanotear

12/14/2010 8:52pm

Greetings. Nanotear Booking here. I am indeed the one organizing this tour, however I was completely unaware of any perceived fascist ties to Allerseelen until reading this post. They are not my clients, just a group of artists that were invited by Agalloch to perform on 4 shows based on artistic merit and a mutual love of nature. Personally, I am sensitive to these issues, and appreciate the ability of any good scene to police itself. In this particular instance however, I simply do not see a "smoking gun."

Your article seems to prove nothing to me other than that Gerhard is a fearless artist that speaks his mind and personal views. That's quite a different stance than the many cowardly folks who have called me from BLOCKED numbers today. Both representatives of Rose City Antifa and a couple of easily coerced college students have accessed my personal cel # and Facebook account, a true invasion of personal freedom/privacy. I would say that I clearly do feel victimized by Rose City Antifa in this instance as I'm both put in a position of being "guilty until proven innocent" and these faceless thugs are coaxing people into harassing me. Folks who likely had never heard of Allerseelen, Agalloch, or myself until today.

My ethics and reputation reach from the deepest DIY music communities to the mayor's office in Portland. I volunteer for my community, and mentor a ten year old boy through the Portland Mentor program. I promote shows for queer-oriented groups and actively help give women a voice in the metal scene. I vote left wing, am a devout (but respectful) atheist, and do not shop at Walmart, McDonalds, Taco Bell, or support any violent or military action.

At what point is it fair to target me? I'll tell you at what point: when a group of overly sensitive folks with too much time on their hands decide who is deemed worthy of their scene-Eugenics program and who is not. In the past, I have been targeted by Christian groups for representing those they deem Pagan or Satanic. This feels no different.

C'mon guys. Let's fight the real nazis together. I'll be on your team. Let this one go. It's a non-issue. For real. Allerseelen has stated in print (and is quoted in your article) as not being fascists. Let's take them at their word and find some real bogeymen. I'll tell you where they are: in the US Government. - Nanotear

witchesinstitches

12/15/2010 12:40am

Ever heard of Laibach? They were accused of being both far left and far right and had everyone blowing steam at each other. Blindsided by ideology, the insecure and misinformed cannot see art for art.

Do you have some factual research to backup these kind of claims, aside from the obviously biased and subjective article you've linked? Criticism does not equal factual information.Hermeneutical analysis from ONE viewpoint does not produce truth.

Having done a little research on Allerseelen, their history, and lyrics, I have a hard time seeing a "real" link between their presence as a band and supporting or advocating a fascist agenda.

Sad to see the Antifa become so easily swayed by subjective perspective that become the very thing they hate...

Nate M

12/15/2010 1:47pm

The far-left probably has just as many or more contradictions in their message. The grouping of ideas and statements from one person into a pre-determined stereotype is more dangerous than any "neo-nazi" band with no more than a few thousand listeners. I'm disgusted at how many "anti-fascists" would not look any deeper into the matter, and in turn censor and forcefully ban these ideas. Maybe they are simply trying to impress others by promoting a hipster trend. Either way, neither Agalloch nor Allerseelen, nor any promotors or venues or anyone else associated with this, should be penalized for simply trying to promote and enjoy music, not political ideas. I would say you all have some pretty interesting conclusions, contradictions, and assumptions based on such little knowledge.

12/15/2010 1:56pm

Nice how you sensor people's right to comment on your propaganda, as you feel so free in your right to slander others, and to threaten, and to impede freedom of speech and to peacably assemble. What a bunch of totalitarian hypocrites!

Alda

12/15/2010 10:49pm

Confronting neo-fascist and racist currents is certainly an admirable and necessary cause (at least from my point of view), but I recommend you pick your targets wisely lest you risk discrediting your contribution. I am not particularly familiar with Allerseelen's work but so far I have seen nothing that represents an absolute advocacy of violent eugenics and fascism. And framing Agalloch into this blacklist is absolutely unfounded, I guarantee you. If you are willing to discuss this further I am absolutely open to discussing it with whoever is behind this.

Josh Getzhardt

12/15/2010 11:47pm

"How many liberators really want to be dictators?"

Nate Carson of Nanotear Booking is certainly a fascist sympathizer, though.
And if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

Juicy Karkass

12/16/2010 5:02am

Word is that Agalloch has responded several times regarding this issue, and that the Antifa site has refused or otherwise neglected to post said responses.

So, what gives? Is there a dialogue or not?

Anonymous link

12/16/2010 9:16am

Hi there,

I'm from germany & i've had a few contacts to some of that
"Steinklang/Allerseelen Family" i hope you understand my English, cause
it's not so good, anyway...
Steinklang Industries seems to grow to Europes biggest Neofolk/ Martial
and now also Black/Pagan Metal (Sturmklang) Label/Distribution/Mailorder.
The policy of the Steinklang Label is more or less: "Nazis are welcome"
there are people befriended/ involved that consider themselves definitely
as "National Socialists"
But Unlike some german "Oi" Bands it's not considered as dangerous, so the
reputation is much better than right wing Oi Labels such as "Dimrecords", i
think that's because many Antifapeople themselves enjoy Neofolk & because
it has no proletarian/ barbarian touch like Skinheadmusic. So it's more or
less accepted in the middle upperclass "Indie/Metal/
Alternative-Mainstream". I also have to admit that some of the releases are
pretty good , i think we all know since the days of Richard Wagner that
also right wing people can be great musicians.
On the latest release "Rauhe Schale" from 2010 Allerseelen has again a
poem from a Nazi on it, it's "Der Kamerad" [The Comrade] from Herybert
Menzel, i read it#s been written in 1944, during the time of "Total War" to
boost the moral of the troops i think. The same poem was also on a Blood
Axis disc but i don't know which one it was...
Gerhard would likely say: "Oh why not, it's a nice poem,i've also Hermann
Hesse etc. set into music, what's the problem?" .
I wouldn't consider him as a nazi, i think, he doesn't care about politics
very much, he's not an active "abuser" as you might think, but also he
knows what he does and he has no problems with Nazis/ Fascists/ Right Wing
people of the European past in general, especially if they have something
obscure in their personalities like being gay (Otto Rahn) , being
religious/ in a sect (Hielscher etc.) or mentally ill (Wiligut) but also in
present, he has no problems with neonazis, his bassplayer is also in
"Halgadom", a folkmetal band led by a "Stahlgewitter" (NS-Rock) guy who
also runs the Nazi Label "Sonnenkreuz" , which (of course) deals with
"Steinklang". The list could go on and on, what's really interesting now is
the "Neofolk-Blackmetal" Connection which is something interesting, cause
the Genres have a different background (punk/new wave vs. metal).
"Sturmklang" is an attempt to build new bridges, the designer of the
Sturmklang grafics is a Pagan Front (NSBM) Supporter. Again the "Nazis are
welcome" policy, I don't know which politics the owner of Steinklang
follows personally but it's definitively their policy.

antifascist

12/16/2010 10:00am

Arrowyn:

Actually, you're attributing stances to the authors that are not actually made in the article.

The article states that Markus Wolff is one of the editors of Hex, as well as a contributor to Tyr. Wolff has pretty clear ties to far-Right persons such as to Moynihan, as well as to RN Taylor for whom he organized the 2005 Changes show in Portland. The reason Hex came up, was because of Wolff's connection to Petak, as well as Hex's promotion of the Allerseelen shows in its online newsletter. The article briefly notes that Hex has other interesting links to the far-Right, such as Amie Rautmann's attendance at the David Irving event *last year* (not "years ago" as you wrote). This is not the same as stating that everyone who contributes to Hex is necessarily a fascist or a Holocaust-denier. It's actually more interesting that this is *not* the case, that Hex is guided by someone who is part of a far-Right cultural and (meta)political milieu (M. Wolff) but that Hex generally downplays or keeps out explicit politics in its content.

The article also deals very clearly with the dishonest nature of Petak's "statements in opposition to Nazi culture or beliefs" and why they should not be taken at face value. It would be helpful if you could engage with these arguments.

David Duke denies that he is any sort of racist or anti-Semite as well. One can't always take these sort of denials seriously, especially when there is such a mass of evidence to the contrary.

antifascist

12/16/2010 10:28am

Karkass:

To the best of my knowledge, Agalloch have not stated anything beyond the two-word response of Aesop Dekker (first comment above.) Nate Carson asserts that Agalloch were the ones who insisted that Allerseelen be on the tour, so it sure would be nice to see something explaining what the heck they were thinking.

antifascist

12/16/2010 11:58am

Nate M,

There are fully five pages of citations for our article. We have looked into the matter.

Also, at no point did we classify Allerseelen as a neo-Nazi band. Here is a quote from our statement:

"...while Petak has had contact with some people who could be fairly described as Nazis or neo-Nazis, Petak has also criticized the Third Reich in print, and we do not describe him personally as a Nazi."

It would be helpful if those that critique our analysis on this issue would actually read our materials, respond to positions we truly take, and engage with the factual evidence and context which we have supplied in abundance.

frackthefascists

12/16/2010 12:49pm

It's ridiculous that all you folks whine and complain that Rose City Antifa is going after these fascist scumbags, but preface everything with stating that you are against racism and fascism.

You're against fascism but openly defend a fascist group? Get real.

Stop with your "free-speech" bullshit, screw Allerseelen or whatever their stupid fantasy land name is, they're clearly a fascist band and anyone who supports them in the name "free speech" is just as bad as a fascist by the act of defending them.

another antifascist

12/16/2010 12:59pm

Nathan Carson / Nanotear Booking :

Your response to this situation is dishonest and disappointing.

Firstly, this situation is not about your ego. Whether or not the mayor’s office likes you, or you choose to abstain from Taco Bell, has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand: that you are promoting a fascist act and exposing them to a larger audience.

While you now proclaim that Petak is simply “a fearless artist that speaks his mind and personal views,” you offer no argument for this beyond Petak’s own denial. This topic has already been discussed extensively in the Rose City Antifa statement. Petak’s word is simply unconvincing; this is not the case of an isolated statement here or a questionable connection there, but a track record of twenty years on his part. Petak has issued a record of Iron Guard marches, and continually praises this violent, anti-Semitic and unquestionably fascist movement in interviews. Allerseelen issued a split release with RN Taylor’s project Changes--Taylor’s politics would fall within the white nationalist spectrum--and named the CD after Julius Evola’s “Men Among the Ruins,” a book that is, at the very least, extreme-Right. Furthermore, Petak is a writer who promoted fascist themes in his pamphlet series, and especially publicized and praised “Varg” Vikernes of black metal project Burzum, probably the most significant carrier of white racial and fascist ideology within the black metal scene. Your blindness to all of this is quite incredible.

Your stances while discussing this matter on the phone were similarly incoherent, for example stating that “It’s not as though Petak is publishing fascist pamphlets” (proximate quote) and then having nothing to say when it was pointed out that this is exactly what Petak did throughout the 1990s. Furthermore, you stated that you were uncomfortable about putting Waldteufel on the Seattle date of the tour, because you knew of Markus Wolff’s politics, but had nothing to say when Petak’s deep connections to Wolff were pointed out. Furthermore, that you were uncomfortable with Wolff’s politics but nevertheless went ahead and--knowingly, by your own admission--still put Waldteufel on the Seattle bill means that none of your claims to integrity may be taken seriously.

For all the talk of being victimized, you are merely being criticized for your decisions.

nanotear

12/16/2010 3:22pm

Thanks for actually publishing my words.

Now can you please defend the fact that you are illegally distributing my personal cel #. I can cite to you the exact statute that you are breaking.

As for Allerseelen, I just had breakfast with them and they are very nice people who hate the right.

I choose to make my decisions based on first hand experiences, not based on a bunch of biased information published on the internet.

It's not about my ego. It's about your fascist methods to suppress artistic endeavors.

that heavy-set promoter from Folklife

12/16/2010 3:23pm

Anyone else get the the feeling that this is what it was like to live in Salem, Mass. in the 1600's? This is just like when the government attacked Hollywood actors over accusation's of communism, and considered them guilty until they proved their allegiance. Get off your computers and go fight the real war: The war against all thing's natural. You know who the real enemy is, quit being cowards and fight them instead of the little people.

And come-the-fuck on! This can easily be seen as a sideways move of attacking Agalloch for the symbol on the cd of their new album. The accusation's of their tourmates made it easier to try to built a case against them.

Nanotear

12/16/2010 3:26pm

And if you want coherent answers, let's go get coffee. I don't do well at 10:30am after a late night DJ gig, speaking with someone calling from a blocked number.

I am a working man... Can't imagine having enough time on my hands to do what you do.

Mary Widow

12/16/2010 6:15pm

Fellow music aficionados and subculture members,

I, too (as most of you claim to be) am anti-fascist and anti-racist in my beliefs. I hold no ill will against anyone based on race, religion, country of origin, sexual orientation, etc.

I am a bit aghast at how many of you- how many of US- are here scolding people who hold those views in common and are committed to doing the HARD WORK and RESEARCH that is required and involved in outing fascists- ESPECIALLY within scenes that I, myself, inhabit.

It is as if we've been told that there is a murderer in our midst, and because we do not want to believe that we consort with murderers, we are denying that we possibly could be, or in some cases, that murderers exist or pose a threat to anyone at all.

When Rose City Antifa tells me about fascists in Portland, I listen. Why? Because I, too, used to believe that fascism wasn't any real threat... until I started to do the research- the TIME CONSUMING and INTENSIVE research to find out for myself what the truth was.

I've found that every time I've done my homework, it has turned out to be the case that I come to the same conclusion that RCA came to.

When it's close to home, it's much, much harder to believe, but if I'm going to tout myself as being anti-fascism and anti-racism or otherwise a good ally to the people I know who belong to minority groups targeted by fascism, I think I owe it to myself and my friends to look within myself and sort my feelings from facts.

Sure, Allerseen has a "right" to say whatever they want to... but that doesn't mean that I have to make excuses for it or support it, and it doesn't mean that I can't exercise MY right to free speech by vocally protesting it and trying to limit the venues that they get to use to spew hate at audiences in the place I call home.

I value my individuality and my freedom to think and say what I want to say, but I also value the safety of my friends. I don't want fascists posing as musical groups, ala Skrewdriver, using fascist intellectualism and (it makes me so sick) racialized paganism to incite violence against my friends. I do NOT want to give the fascists that opportunity. They had it in Germany, and unless you, too, deny the horrors of the Holocaust, you know what the result was.

And Nathan, I'll have you know that as a former supporter of shows you've booked in Portland in the past, comparing supporting fascist propaganda through music to deciding how I feel about eating at Taco Bell seals the deal for me- I'll be telling this story about you and YOUR response to antifa's criticism of the musician that you (probably just due to your own lack of research into the subject) have booked to play in my city for a very, VERY long time to come. That's not going to be good for business, sir.

an antifascist ally

12/16/2010 6:35pm

@Nate-

Exactly what qualifies to you as a "real Nazi"? What does one have to say or do to earn that title in your book?

If you aren't willing to cancel the booking of a fascist band, what is your idea of "fighting the real Nazis together?"

Do you suggest that we sit down with them, serve them cocoa and try to get at the root of the childhood trauma that caused them to want to promote genocide?

...

I'm not stupid, nor am I the victim of propaganda here.

Being a "nice guy" doesn't actually preclude you from being a fascist sympathizer. Your actions in relation to facists are what determine that.

This Machine

12/16/2010 10:03pm

So much of this debate, (which has been taking place for decades now it seems), perpetually revolves back to semantic hair-splitting and definitional nit-picking. In that environment newcomers are easily persuaded, but denied the substantive background that is really necessary to attain a coherent view of the controversy.

I think article does a pretty good job of laying out some of the background issues, but I think it fails somewhat to make the key points clear to those not as familiar.

It's historically complicated and murky territory. Guilt by association isn't that compelling, the overall socio-political issues need to be discussed in the open, or the "Artists-Who-Just-Like-Fascist-Imagery" will always have the cover of ambiguity to return to.

To anyone just coming to this debate: do some research, there are a lot of resources online dedicated to studying this mess. Avoidance and misdirection are key tactics of those who are not being 100% forthcoming about their motivations.

A good book to check out: Gods of the Blood: The Pagan Revival and White Separatism by Mattias Gardell (where the author presents a scholarly and dispassionate view of some of the current players under discussion, spending time with them in his travels).

antifascist

12/17/2010 1:43am

This Machine:

What key points do you feel should have been made clearer? Perhaps there can be some further clarification in the comments here. I'm also curious as to what you believe are the "overall socio-political issues" that should be centralized in this and similar discussions.

The Gardell book is indeed worth reading for those who would like further context on these matters. Allerseelen gets a mention in passing in there, on the topic of the 1994 Blood Axis/Allerseelen split release.
See: http://books.google.com/books?id=FIwwWSSL5JIC&q=allerseelen

Agreed that guilt by association is not enough, but it does seem that when someone works on common projects with another person, in a manner that reflects a shared (meta)political vision, this does have relevance to the discussion. Therefore it does seem fair to mention both Moynihan and Taylor in relation to Petak.

Nanotear

12/17/2010 2:07am

"If you aren't willing to cancel the booking of a fascist band..."

See that's just it. Even your article spells out that Allerseelen is not a fascist band. So get your own facts straight.

I am not a fascist-sympathizer. I am a patron of the arts and I can 100% guaranty that Allerseelen will not "spew hate" at any of the shows that I booked.

This is an artistic musical performance. That is all. Under no circumstances will these events be a platform for anything other than musical celebration. If you choose not to join it, I wish you well.

antifascist

12/17/2010 2:22am

witchesinstitches:

The difference between Laibach and Allerseelen, is that Laibach deploy totalitarian imagery--not only fascist imagery, but also from Stalinism--while arguably using it with irony and perhaps even some humor. Allerseelen, on the other hand, explicitly describes itself as a völkisch project and takes a non-ironic stance that serves as advocacy. While Laibach are vague about their real intentions--it would be a shallow and likely incorrect reading of the group to take their grand pronouncements at face value--Petak is clear and non-ironic about where he's at. (The article discusses Petak's apoliteic "art" excuses in some detail.)

The article supplied by Rose City Antifascists was not merely "linked" by the organization, but was composed by them. You call the article "obviously biased and subjective [...] does not equal factual information." What precisely is incorrect or faulty in the article? It is true that Rose City Antifascists are coming at this issue from a perspective of antifascism; this does not necessarily make their information untrue. Please provide an argument about what is actually wrong or incorrect in the article.

No Pasaran!

12/17/2010 8:29am

@ Nate:

It must be difficult to get through life with no spine. You are just another white yuppie that is vigorously defending your right to not give a shit about fascism. It is even more disgusting that you act as if hiding behind this privalege is somehow a virtue. It is actually a failure on your part to empathize with the people that fascists want to put in ovens. Instead you stand with fascist propangandists/Nazi-fetishizing creeps. You are a coward with zero integrity. You are making the most lucrative and easiest choice and ignoring all information that might somehow impede this. Gross. Both you and Agalloch had the option to do the right thing here, but you didn't. There are plenty of good bands that you could have gotten to fill Allerseelen's place, even though that may have been a bit of a scramble. Laziness trumps principles. Also you should get stomped for using the term "scene-eugenics" as it is in amazingly bad taste. Your having to answer blocked phone calls is exactly like the horrors of the Shoah? Poor, poor booking whore has to think about morality. What giant fascists RCA are for harshing your mellow.

@ all the ridiculously pretentious, self-pitying metal nerds that posted lame criticism on here:

Way to go brain-trust for making the same tired moral equivalencies. Here's a news flash: fascism has an actual political definition. Being rude or mean does not make you a fascist. Even being violent does not make you a fascist. A woman fighting off a rapist is not the moral equivalent of a rapist. Also, point of fact, phone jams were not a popular tactic with fascists through out history. Unless Agalloch and Allerseelen get rounded up into labor camps then systematically euthanized, you don't have a fucking argument. I hope you get your just desserts, you narcissistic little twerps. It ain't like Vampire Tag or World of Warcraft here in the Rose City fuck-os.

Puget Soundian

12/17/2010 10:39am

I love how you guys ignore the personal interaction's with Allerseelen of Nate's, showing that they have no harboring of right ideal's. You guys are acting very blindly. We've read your defenses and accusations(at least I have), and you damn near call us fascist's for not believing you. We have the choice to disagree, and you seem to think that once someone is painted a fascist, there's no washing of the tag and it corrodes those who act in their defense. Not very tolerant of you, if I say so myself. You act as if the RCA is infallible! Everyone can make a wrong statement or accusation, and I believe the RCA has done-so here. Swallow your pride and look at yourselves, because I guarantee you that a lot of people are going to take you and your blind actions less seriously now, because I know that I do, even as someone who is vehemently against fascism and racist ideal's. You've embarrassed us all.

I really don't like Nate Carson as a person or a businessman, but I think everything he has posted here was heartfelt and honest. In fact, your comments to him make me hate him even less, because you guys are acting like Christian puritans waving torches outside of an innocent woman's house, calling her a witch.

As stated before, I've read your case against Allerseelen, and I whole-heartedly disagree and think your just convincing yourselves of something that just isn't there. And it shows the truth: SHARP's are just as bone-headed and intolerant as racist skinheads. Remember when that innocent Portland man was beaten to death just for wearing a Thor's hammer? I put that incident right next to the Ethiopian who was beaten to death by skinheads outside of the Satyricon. Just because you recognize your ancestry, that doesn't mean you are a racist. Splitting hairs causes disillusionment.

Please, bring this witch hunt to an end. Your violence will not sway us to drop our common sense just because you think you can twist our arms. As an anti-fascist who is palming his forehead, I say just go fuck off somewhere, to you.

antifascist

12/17/2010 12:57pm

To “that heavy-set promoter from Folklife”:

You write: “This can easily be seen as a sideways move of attacking Agalloch for the symbol on the cd of their new album. The accusation's [sic] of their tourmates made it easier to try to built [sic] a case against them.”

That is some theory! Actually, Agalloch was discussed in the article because they are going on tour with Allerseelen, and therefore exposing Allerseelen to a broader audience. It has subsequently become clear that Allerseelen was placed on the tour as support at Agalloch’s specific request, at least according to Nathan Carson’s account.

Now that you mention it, though, perhaps Agalloch would like to clarify why their latest CD’s packaging contains a triskele element reminiscent of the Afrikaner Resistance Movement logo, amongst the more obviously pagan design parts. If Agalloch ever decides to issue a statement on the Allerseelen matter—beyond Aesop Dekker’s two words—then they may feel free to address this topic as well. But to pretend that this is the origin of Rose City Antifa’s concern really goes against all available evidence. The most obvious explanation for Agalloch’s use of this imagery is probably more likely them being oblivious or them trying to be edgy, rather than a deep ideological commitment to racist Afrikaner paramilitaries.

antifascist

12/17/2010 12:58pm

Nathan Carson writes: “Even your article spells out that Allerseelen is not a fascist band. So get your own facts straight.”

Rose City Antifa’s article stated: “While Petak has had contact with some people who could be fairly described as Nazis or neo-Nazis […] we do not describe him personally as a Nazi. […] We place Petak’s viewpoints and advocacy on the terrain of neo-fascism and the far-Right.” The article ends with referring to Petak as a “fascist propagandist.” Carson severely misrepresents Rose City Antifa’s position.

Part of the problem seems to be that Carson does not recognize that there is a difference between the words “Nazi” and “fascist.” Nazism was one particular variety of fascism (fascism with a lower case “f”—Fascism with a capitalized “F” signifies the Italian Fascism of Benito Mussolini.) Nathan Carson seems to be of the belief that, because Gerhard Petak does not operate an extermination camp (Petak merely sings songs with lyrics from SS members) that he could not possibly be a fascist. Yet death camps are not where fascism begins; they are something that fascist political practice may lead to, but they are not its starting point. Gerhard Petak praises and promotes the Romanian Iron Guard—there is zero doubt that this was a fascist movement—and yet Carson can say nothing about this matter, because of his confusion between “Nazi” and “fascist.”

Carson is so totally ignorant, that he claims that the members of Allerseelen are “people who hate the right.” This is a claim that even Allerseelen’s greatest promoters have never made before, because it is so obviously wrong. In this situation, ignorance is no excuse for Nathan Carson—because it is so willful.

Finally, Carson’s assertion that “It's not about my ego” seems dishonest when in conversation he discounts the possibility of any criticism being valid, unless it comes from someone of equal stature to his own within the metal scene.

Nanotear

12/17/2010 1:43pm

"It must be difficult to get through life with no spine."

This comes from yet another masked defender. When someone wants to call me from an unblocked number, and use their real name, I will take them seriously.

Until such point, you are all cowards, and your words carry no weight whatsoever.

My assertion that Gerhard hates the right is taken directly from his words to me in person. Not some writings from a fifteen year old zine. If we were going to take everyone at face value based on old writings, then I am still a Dungeon Master and Bad Religion is still my favorite band. Those were the days!

antifascist

12/17/2010 2:26pm

Dungeon Master Carson:

Petak was bullshitting you or playing semantic games. He himself describes the Allerseelen project as being "conservative avant garde," a reference to the Conservative Revolutionaries. This is clearly a part of the political Right, even if it's very different from the Right of mainstream Republicanism etc., which I have no doubt Petak hates.

If Petak has changed so much from his old pamphlets, then why are they all being reprinted by Tyler Davis' Ajna Offensive, and why is Petak enthusiastic about this rather than ashamed?

Arrowyn link

12/17/2010 3:00pm

Antifascist:

I make it very clear in my statement above that I am well aware that you are not really taking much of a stance on anything in the article. Whether that is because you fear being guilty of libel, or don't really have any direct accusation you can conscientiously make, I don't know. It is possible that you are simply whipping up the rumor mill with muddied claims (an excellent application of "A but not A").

You use innuendo, guilt by association, and leaps in logic that leave a reader so confused that they are bullied into taking your stance. That is, unless they have the patience to wade through all of it and separate out what is actually substantiated from all the unsupportable implication and veiled accusation that you resort to so freely. Therefore, I can only try to address your innuendos.

It is very obvious that you are making veiled allegations that Hex magazine is run by people who have "associations" with the far-Right, and who are "Holocaust-denying enthusiasts." And try to implicate Gerhard by association.

Your supposed evidence is that Amie's husband bought two tickets to see David Irving speak. How does that lead to "one of [Hex's] founders and initial editors is an enthusiast of the Holocaust-denier David Irving"? If you want to be factual, you have to be clear and thorough, without making unsubstantiated assumptions.

Amie was separated from her husband for years. So how exactly do you know that she attended the talk herself? If she did, how do you know the intention that she attended it with? Are you saying that everyone who attended this talk is an enthusiast? What about the media? What about the Antifa? Were they all there as enthusiasts?

Excuse my mistake about saying that the talk occurred years ago, because I assumed you were actually referring to something that happened while Amie was involved with Hex, which would be a bit more relevant. But she hasn't been involved for many years, which is very apparent on our website, but is conveniently left out of your statement.

Are you expecting Hex to take responsibility for the possible (unsubstantiated) beliefs that an ex-staff member might hold years after leaving the magazine? I’d like to hope that your notion of “evidence” is a little more sound than that. In the meantime, such surmised beliefs remain a total non-sequitur as far as Hex’s content is concerned. We write about folk tradition, mythology, art, and cooking.

And by the way, why is it that you didn't try to block David Irving from speaking, since he *actually* is a Holocaust-denier?

In your most recent comment to me you say that Markus Wolff has ties to people in the far-Right. Even if that is true, it still doesn't prove that his politics are in alignment with those people. I have known Markus for 10 years and I know his politics (when they even come up, which is rare) are definitely not far-Right. Recently, a publisher asked to put a paid advertisement in Hex. Markus took a strong stance on rejecting that (much needed) income because their stock included a small number of far right wing titles, even though they were far from the mainstay of this publisher’s range. We agreed and declined the ad. Not the action of a right wing extremist.

To be published in Tyr is hardly grounds to be called far Right either. Some of the authors lean in that direction but some do not at all. They are very vocal about being an open ground for a full range of discussion, political and not. In fact, being published in any magazine does not align you with everything else published there.

You pull quotes out of context, and make wild assumptions about people's intentions. You also conveniently leave out details that make your argument less clear. For instance, Gerhard's own statement (which you demanded, but then ignored, so it is not printed here) where he points out that you obviously haven't read his lyrics because he uses poetry written by concentration camp victims in his songs.

A normal intelligent person might stop and reconsider…"hmm what if I am wrong?" But a crusader writes it off as "dishonest." Right at any cost.

And seriously – David Duke? You are comparing Gerhard to the Grand Wizard of the KKK and you expect us to take you seriously?

In the neofolk music scene, people come from all points of the spectrum of politics. Many bands have no political agenda at all. And not all people even within the same band share the same politics. They share an interest in art, culture, and music for the most part. So to say that someone has associations with people who might have certain politics that you disagree with isn't saying anything at all. It's like saying that there are people in Portland who are racist, so if you live there you must be racist as well. Your logic is seriously flawed.

In addition, not everyone requires that every person they "associate with" is a carbon

Anonymous

12/17/2010 3:02pm

"Petak’s extreme-Right messages"

[Citation Needed]

Both this post and the article on scribd are seriously lacking in carefully cited examples. You can't tar and feather somebody based on hearsay and pronounce them guilty by association, unless your last name is McCarthy.

Midwest Antifa

12/17/2010 3:31pm

@Nate...

it's easy to call somebody a coward for not giving their name. I bet you feel real tough today. Calling Mommy to say:

"Mommy! Today... Today people were *mean* to me. But I showed them Mommy!... You know what? I Hung up!.., arent you proud of me?"

Did you run straight to mirror, suck in your girth and feel proud? Jesus Marry and that Carpenter Guy! when did metal fans suddenly all start acting like some pre-teen cure fans that heard "Robert Smith died of overdose of huffed solvents! Life cant go on! where is my safety razor?!"

Somebody needs to lure you into an alley with a rubber Poison CD on a string. If this is "Black metal" courage I think I'm going to have the local chapter of barry manlowe's fan club give you the first adult strength beating of your pathetic eternal pre-teen existance.

Go on and posture on the internet... it might even be good for the old wallet, which is the only functioning organ you have. When you are done with your pathetic denials here, maybe you can cry about this somemore on myspace or facebook or something.

Tell you what, its christmas and I need your address to send you a bunch of tissues, help you cry all the way to the bank.

Because in the end, through all your fake posturing and fake tears, you are making money off this. You are making a profit from racism, which makes you cynical at best and total scum any other way that it can be looked at.

If you gave two shits about freedom of speech or anything else you'd be out promoting for that, you'd be self-lessly raising money for wikileaks, or standing up for the people who get the extrordinary rendition flights to gitmo or the all the unpopular socially relevant things that get suppressed by people far more powerful than a small dedicated collective in portland.

Instead, you are turning a quick nickel off a fascist band and wrapping yourself in the flag when you get a few phone calls where *gasp* people say mean stuff to you.

Turd... you need to get flushed.

This Machine

12/17/2010 3:35pm

@antifascist
... I guess what I'm alluding to re. socio-political factors is that this is different territory than that which is occupied by outfits like Volksfront or NSM. As Anonymous from Germany above points out, we're talking about a movement that has more artistic and musical credibility among an upper middle class demographic, even overlap with scenes that embrace anti-fascism. The same tactics of confrontation aren't applicable.

To what extent is this milieu merely playing with transgressive images and provocative themes? (punk, metal and rock and roll have done this). And to what extent is there an actual promotion of militant, elitist, anti-egalitarian, separatist type ideologies. From observation I'd say both are taking place at different levels, and both deserve aggressive debate.

Placing these acts on the stereotypical right of the left-right spectrum also provides them with easy cover. i.e. Third Positionist, Julius Evola etc.

In a nutshell, I'm suggesting that this is nuanced territory, not that that makes it any less vital to confront and challenge what we know/believe to be a coordinated ideological-cultural offensive. It makes it more challenging and interesting.

@Nanotear
"Under no circumstances will these events be a platform for anything other than musical celebration."

This doesn't hold water. The material in question is riddled throughout with political and philosophical themes, which is precisely what we are discussing, however clumsily.

Solidarity with everyone who is taking the time to pay attention.

<3 antifa

12/18/2010 10:22am

@ Anonymous

"[Citation Needed]"

Rose City Antifa provided five pages of citations. In what looks like eight point font.

antifascist

12/18/2010 2:01pm

Arrowyn:

This is only going to partially respond to your points. Rather than deal with your perception of what is implied in the article, I will deal with what the article actually states. Here are the relevant sentences about Hex Magazine:

“Wolff currently also edits Hex magazine, a ‘heathen’ journal that has published Petak (as Gerhard Hallstatt) in several issues. Hex has some other interesting associations with the far-Right; one of its founders and initial editors, Amie Rautmann (listed as “A. von Rautmann” on the Hex website) is an enthusiast of the Holocaust-denier David Irving, and attended Irving’s speech in Portland on July 19, 2009. The Hex website also promotes Allerseelen’s current tour.”

Regarding Amie Rautmann, did you check the footnote and visit the source? The listing not only states that Scott Rautmann, who purchased the tickets, is married to “Amy” (sic) but also that he phoned Irving (or Irving’s assistant Janelle Antas) on July 17, 2009, and stated that “my wife and I are very excited” about the upcoming event.

You are correct that the source could merely mean that Scott and Amie Rautmann were excited about the event, communicated this to Irving (or his assistant) and paid for tickets, rather than that they actually set foot in the event. One of the things that the article attempted to do was present an overview, rather than get completely lost in the details. But seeing as additional details are now being requested, here they are:

Here is a link to a photo of Amie Rautmann on her way in to the Irving event at the (You’ll recognize the tattoos):

http://media.portland.indymedia.org/images/2009/07/392907.jpg

Regarding Amie Rautmann’s attitude towards Irving: beyond Rautmann’s “excitement” and her attendance at the Portland Irving event, she also at the time of writing has the “David Irving Official Fan Page” listed on her Facebook profile.

This would seem to qualify as an “interesting association” between Hex magazine and the far-Right, and be enough to accurately describe Rautmann as an enthusiast of Irving. Regarding the “many years” since Rautmann left the project: the Hex website indicates that Rautmann was involved until issue number three, which was the Spring / Summer 2008 issue. That’s two and a half years ago at this point. Rautmann attended the Irving event slightly more than a year after leaving Hex, judging by the time on issue three’s cover. (Feel free to contest the timeline.) It is possible that Rautmann suddenly became enthusiastic about Irving having left Hex magazine, but does not seem to the most likely scenario.

Regarding your question: “And by the way, why is it that you didn't try to block David Irving from speaking, since he *actually* is a Holocaust-denier?” Rose City Antifa did try to block the Irving event, see here:

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2009/07/392889.shtml

Regarding Markus Wolff: I’m glad that you don’t deny that he has ties to individuals on the far-Right. It is an interesting anecdote about him turning down an advertisement due to a publisher’s “stock include[ing] a small number of far right wing titles,” but in the absence of specifics (what publisher, what titles etc.) it’s hard to know what to make of it. As with the case of Petak, I do not think that Wolff is a neo-Nazi. However, it’s not simply that he keeps company with folk on the far-Right; it’s also a matter of the analysis he himself puts out, which gives context to these other connections. For example, while Wolff criticizes the “centralized planning and stilted pageantry of the National Socialist state” (quote from his article in Tyr #1) many of his writings celebrate the broader völkisch movement that fed into the Conservative Revolutionaries and then into the Nazi Party. Völkisch ideology was not and is not politically neutral. Wolff’s view of the world especially comes out in his article for Tyr #2, in which he argues that “The new German postwar society was marked by an unprecedented break with the past, allowing outside influences to replace indigenous values at a rapid rate.” While this article also criticizes the Nazis, it is clear that Wolff does have a xenophobic unease towards “outside influences” upon a nation or Volk, and that he places “indigenous values” of blood, soil and belonging near the center of his worldview. While such perspectives may be found in a variety of political formulations, they are inevitably formulations of the Right.

Regarding Tyr and being published in it: I do think that this has some political meaning. It is true that Tyr has some range in terms of the materials and authors it presents, but in general this is the range between secess

antifascist

12/18/2010 2:03pm

More to Arrowyn:

Regarding Tyr and being published in it: I do think that this has some political meaning. It is true that Tyr has some range in terms of the materials and authors it presents, but in general this is the range between secessionists (Thomas Naylor), European New Right folk (de Benoist), Right-wing Perennialists (the Julius Evola reprints), and folkish Ásatrú adherents. There are exceptions to this (e.g. the Annie Le Brun article in Tyr #3) but Tyr is a journal with a specific editorial stance and a particular worldview which it spells out in its editorial statements. It is true that each contributor to Tyr does not necessarily agree with every other one, but overall statements of purpose and how the project sees itself does have some relevance. There is no way in which the lengthy interview Allerseelen within issue two was out-of-step with the overall politics and worldview of Tyr. It is also relevant to write about Petak in relation to Tyr, because of Petak’s longstanding friendship and collaboration on other projects with one of Tyr’s editors, Michael Moynihan.

Petak’s statement is not news—it is his stock statement when receiving criticism nowadays. Petak repeated his line about having nothing to do with politics, and even made the incredible statement that his work contains no “political contexts.” He then promoted his Myspace page. His mention of “two Allerseelen songs written by people imprisoned in concentration camps” is also not particularly new. What are these songs? “Lied der Haeftlinge” was “written by prisoners of the concentration camp close to the German castle Wewelsburg” (Discogs page) and was included in the vinyl reissue for “Gotos=Kalanda.” The track in its context therefore contains several references to SS-mysticism: firstly, before extra tracks were added for the vinyl version the original “Gotos=Kalanda” release was exclusively based around poems by Karl Maria Wiligut, and secondly Wewelsburg was the castle redesigned as a SS leadership hub, and where the “Black Sun” image beloved by Petak appeared as a mosaic. The other song Petak mentions is “Sonne golthi-ade,” with lyrics by Friedrich Bernhard Marby, who was later interned in a concentration camp. Firstly, this internment may have been at Wiligut’s command, and is thus at least obliquely another Wiligut reference by Petak. Marby was a rival runeologist and völkisch mystic to Wiligut. Secondly, the same album on which the song “Sonne golthi-ade” appeared—“Flamme”--also had a track inspired by the writings of Miguel Serrano, a Chilean “Esoteric Hitlerist.” So much for Allerseelen’s albums containing nothing fascistic…

About the reference to David Duke: the racial division plan promoted by RN Taylor of Changes, is essentially the same as that of David Duke. I am not arguing that Petak is *exactly like* Duke—there are some obvious differences between the two--but Petak does work with and promote someone who has Duke-style politics. The point is that denials of fascist affiliation cannot always be taken at face value. These statements should be looked at in a comprehensive context that takes other political (or metapolitical) signaling and activity into consideration.

I don’t deny that there are people in the neo-folk scene who are not far-Right; it would be great to hear more of such voices.

Evan

12/18/2010 2:09pm

This is really sad. Of course you should speak out against fascism. But this is just silly. Harassing the booker of a musical group that may or may not have far right leanings? All they do is play industrial rock. I don't think a single person in the venue could even have understood their Austrian lyrics even if they had fascist conotations. But even if they had sat down on the stage and read an english translation on Mein Kampf to us I still don't think it's right to harass them or the booker. They have a right to say what they please. And anyway I thought their music was quite lovely.

If you would seek to suppress their right to speak you are no better than fascists yourselves. How depressing.

I hope you will will continue to speak out against fascism, but do it in a more meaningful productive way.

antifascist

12/18/2010 2:12pm

Puget Soundian:

"Remember when that innocent Portland man was beaten to death just for wearing a Thor's hammer?"

No, I don't. Please provide a reference.

"the Ethiopian who was beaten to death by skinheads outside of the Satyricon."

Do you mean Mulugeta Seraw, who was beaten to death by neo-Nazi boneheads in 1988, in a totally different area of Portland to the Satyricon?

Nobody thinks that Rose City Antifa is infallible, including themselves. Any factual errors that are pointed out and confirmed will be corrected.

Puget Soundian

12/18/2010 2:13pm

Jeez, get over yourselves. You guys sound so delusional and self-rightous, that it's unbelievable. Let people believe and think what they want, quit beating a dead horse and really, stop with the violence. Your attacks on Autonomy are more detrimental to your cause than you could ever know. I'm more against you than for your cause because you decide to hurt others physically, which is immensely dishonorable.

Watcher's Monolith

12/18/2010 4:58pm

Attention: Report on the Show

I attended the show last night and wish to report that there was no connotation, even hint, of fascism or any other extreme ideology at the show. The only thing I viewed was a profound reverence of nature and the natural world, woven into music so beautiful that only a fool would allow it to fall upon a deaf ear.

Allerseelen sounded great on stage, and I seriously doubt anyone in the audience could understand a single world of their Austrian lyrics over the heavy industrial riffs. Even if someone could, the lyrics address naturalistic themes and a politically neutral assessment of the human condition. Despite RCAF's laughable attempts to label Allerseelen as a far-right facist organization on par with blatant neo-nazism, the show went on beautifully and promoted little more than great music.

Agalloch performed flawlessly that evening and put on a show that will be remembered for a life time.

Thank you Nanotear for organizing the show and working hard to bring great music to Portland! Stand up for yourself against these self-righteous thugs.

I would respect their organization if they behaved even with a semibalance of professionalism. But, they behave like an enclave of hipster liberal arts majors with little better to do with their time than engage in a self-righteous crusade against things that do not meld perfectly into their narrow conception of what is "acceptable."

To RCAIFA (pr whatever acronym you call yourself):

In short, get a life. Quit harassing Agalloch's manager and publishing blatantly biased material. You're wasting your short lives on, as Aesop mentioned, a complete and utter witch hunt.

I know your hipster "counterculture" predicates itself upon engaging in a series of uniform fruitless activities that mean virtually nothing, but stop spreading lies and fear over nothing.

Homelessness, poverty, violent crime, and unemployment are REAL problems that plague Portland. I understand that addressing these problems would require putting aside whatever hipster group-think activity you are engaged at the time, but I encourage you to devote your time to addressing REAL problems.

Fascism can be a real problem, but it exists in such a minute scale in PDX that the threat is all but mythical. Especially when your "arch fascist nemesis" takes the form of an Austrian folk musician that does not so much as promote a sliver of ideology when he performs.

Again, stop harassing talented musicians and bookers. Hell, I'd also suggest expanding the ridiculous scope of your organization to include addressing broader range of problems.

Agalloch represents the pinnacle of modern music.

This Elder Stone shall Never Fall!

Anonymous

12/18/2010 5:21pm

@<3 antifa

There's not a single citation in those 90 that actually shows Petak delivering an "extreme Right-wing message".

Have you read any of them?

Nanotear

12/18/2010 7:00pm

"Mommy! Today... Today people were *mean* to me. But I showed them Mommy!... You know what? I Hung up!.., arent you proud of me?"

Dear Midwest Antifa, your message is so juvenile and riddled with errors that I hesitate to even respond.

But I do want to say that I answered the phone and spoke with every single person who called, (except for one single person who got to my voice mail before I could answer.) Some were rude, many obstinate, and others were absolutely willing to talk and reconsider their impulsive reactions based on the Antifa article. Either way, I tried because I don't want anyone to feel like I'm unsympathetic to their concerns.

Ultimately, the shows was a success. Everyone who attended had a great time and witnessed artful musical performances. It was a beautiful evening and my final event at Berbati's.

To think that I work in the underground metal scene out of "greed" is very short-sighted though. But I realize there is no wikipedia article about me, so how would you know what I'm about if you are hovering behind your computer instead of reaching out in a human manner?

Anyway I want to thank Antifa for being vigilant about potential problems. I think it is of crucial importance to safeguard our scene from real problems. In this instance, there simply aren't any. If anyone wants to have a sincere dialog with me after this tour, I'm quite available. My name, email, and number are on the internet after all.

frackthefascists

12/19/2010 4:29pm

Self-righteous? Fuck you, Puget Soundian, maybe you don't have to deal with having to be afraid that you and your friends are going to be targeted by a group of fascist assholes pumped up by black metal music, but some of us are.

You and Nate are cowards who can't acknowledge your privilege and are openly defending a fascist band. You claim RCA is full of shit because you think they're cool guys and apparently RCA's research with tons of citations isn't good enough for you since you just know better, right?

Start taking responsibility for yourselves and chill on your egos before you start to makes bullshit claims that antifa are big mean self-righteous bullies that want to stop the poor lil meek fascists.

12/19/2010 11:01pm

hi everybody.

um, i just found out that fascism and anti-fascism are actually the same thing. did you know that? some commenters above let me know. whew. imagine what mighta happened in my brain if i hadnt learned that today.

ya know what? i was also just thinkin.
cops are people too. you know what i mean?

im really sorry now for feeling so upset earlier about people like sticking up for far-right neo-fascist And/or Nazi ideologies, and even those people-who-happened-to-be-fascists themselves! my bad, ya know?

people should like always feel safe being able to say and do whatever they please in the free world ya know? i mean shit, thats what we're all fightin for right?

i mean golly, if i were to like Speak Out against someone for wearing a mask, sneaking up and shooting an anti-fascist point-blank in downtown portland without warning for example... i might as well be george bush! i mean shit, that person in the mask has the right to carry arms right? and to protect them self!

it would be as if i was one of those hitler youth in the 1930's ya know? just like going along with the rise of german nationalist-socialism. i might as well be sending people's entire families to death camps with the stroke of a pen er- keystroke on my computer! basically the same damn thing!

we Should all put our money and time and interest into supporting bands who are just, ya know, speaking their minds and being free. whatever the belief systems and agendas of the bands are. fuck it, ya know. gotta support freedom of all people, even if they are all like neo-fascist or whatever. i mean, its not like they would ever come for my white ass anyways you know? and thats what im sayin. why does it even matter? i mean, we're all straight, white, and freedom loving natural-born American citizens right? so why all the fuss??

gosh darnit, cant we all just get along and end this witch hunt? god, this might as well be the same thing as Kristallnacht, or the russian Progroms, or Afrikaner-led apartheid, ya know? its the same thing! this word-violence is equal to the horrors inflicted by those Other fascists in history. you guys have been right about that! golly! fuck, i mean Come On: outting nazis on the internet with pictures and links to their true ideologies and connections with various groups??? shame on "RCA".

P.S. fuck you nate.
i didnt join the phone call action because i didnt wanna hear your apologist, low- integrity, whiny-ass voice saying the same tired old liberalist bullshit. you lack integrity to the nth degree. in more ways than this one example of ignorant, selfishly egotistical ridiculousness, again showing an utter lack of any presupposed politics. you are a weasel.

and to all the boring apologist liberals here-within, whether you recognize yourselves as such or not: just fucking end yourselves. never fucking begin anything with "i hate fascism and racism But" and then Onward to moralist/devil's advocate victory! with your cowardice towards actually ever taking a fucking stand. this is one of those (albeit rather small) moments! when do you think the work should begin against all forms of fascism and bigotry??? if not now when, if not us then who? i say this with every fiber of disgust my body has to muster: you are fucking losers. die.

P.S.S. i cant help but think of that Martin Niemöller (as over-used as it is by liberals patting themselves on the back for being supposedly "down"; thats specifically why im mentioning it now)...you know, "first they came for the communists..." etc etc.

i remember that quote sometimes. just saying.

have a fucking backbone.

end.

antifascist

12/20/2010 2:59am

This Machine:

Thanks for the thoughtful comments. I’d agree with you that there are differences between European New Right folk in the post-industrial (martial, neo-folk etc.) scenes and organizations such as Volksfront or the NSM. I agree with the general contours of Shekhovtsov’s “Apoliteic Music” piece, and I think it’s important to know the difference between metapolitical and political efforts. However I do think that the way Shekhovtsov stresses this difference is a bit too rigid--the categories are useful analytical tools, but in reality the categories do not operate wholly apart. I think Shekhovtsov errs a tiny bit in terms of stressing the difference between metapolitical and political projects, and not giving any attention to moments of sameness. For example, folk tend to put National Anarchists in more of a “metapolitical” category--think of Troy Southgate’s RoseNoire website and his musical efforts--but on the ground the Bay Area National Anarchists have worked alongside members of the American Front, and Volksfront International has also developed ties to the National Anarchists. (While we commonly call Volksfront and the American Front neo-Nazi organizations, it's important to remember that both have a “Third Position” lineage of their own, influenced by Tom Metzger’s White Aryan Resistance, and in the case of the American Front also having more exotic influences during certain eras.)

You are likely correct that the apoliteic music scene--or however you personally label it--“has more artistic and musical credibility among an upper middle class demographic” although I’d be a bit more cautious about the “even overlap with scenes that embrace anti-fascism” bit. I mean, I absolutely agree that the broader neo-folk and post-industrial scenes contain people who are anti-fascists--I'm very much interested in hearing from such people. However, I’m not sure whether, when one goes towards the more Right-oriented extremes of the scene, that one is left with too many anti-fascist types. As much as I agree with Shekhovtsov that one should not necessarily jump on anyone as being a fascist for a few runes here or there--obviously, far-Right folk are not the only people who use runes --I also really doubt that there are going to be many anti-fascists purchasing tributes to the Iron Guard or Evola, at least if they know what is being paid tribute to. I understand that there may be people for whom some of the rhetoric and symbolism has not been understood. I do favor education in these cases. I also favor asking people what precisely they mean by certain symbolic gestures, such as Agalloch’s decision to bring Allerseelen along on tour.

In terms of class: I do not see more working class-based fascist projects (such as American Front or Volksfront, or the proletarian emphasis of a lot of the bonehead subculture) as being a threat, whereas upper middle class far-Right ventures are not. In fact, the more middle class and pseudo-intellectual projects are a real problem, due to their greater resources, respectability and even ability to influence popular discourse. (The example that leaps to mind is the Pioneer Fund’s sponsorship of research that was included as data for The Bell Curve, which in turn influenced national and even international discussions around race.) Furthermore, both the proletarian and the more upper middle class initiatives have political programs that would, in order to be realized, necessitate the deployment of violence on a grand scale. In terms of far-Right counterculture, I think one important sign is Alex Kurtagic’s articles about black metal that appeared in the white nationalist American Renaissance and The Occidental Quarterly publications, both of which aim for a more middle-class readership. (I’m definitely NOT suggesting here that the black metal scene is uniformly far-Right, just that there are concerted efforts by far-Right tendencies to build their support in the scene… just as with the post-industrial scenes.)

Regarding tactics of confrontation: even if one takes a “no platform for fascists” position, context and circumstances still count. In cases such as Allerseelen, what I favor is booking agents and record labels--which I see as curators of a broader scene--showing some discernment and responsibility regarding what they promote. I support very loud and unequivocal speech when someone decides to make a quick buck promoting fascist chic to wider audiences. I think that people who make such poor choices may have to deal with at a minimum some complaint and lost respect.

I agree that there are many elements of “épater le bourgeois” shock tactics in the post-industrial scene, including the use of fascistic imagery. This shocking of the bourgeois is of course even more important when the participan

antifascist

12/20/2010 3:01am

to This Machine, continued:

I agree that there are many elements of “épater le bourgeois” shock tactics in the post-industrial scene, including the use of fascistic imagery. This shocking of the bourgeois is of course even more important when the participants are middle class themselves. The crucial political discussion is where any sort of critical distance from the topic matter disappears, and at what point there is clear and unambiguous advocacy for a particular ideological tendency. I don’t believe that just because something breaks a taboo, means that it is politically meaningless or that is *merely* shock value. (I don’t expect that you do, either.)

Finally, I think it’s correct to place ideas such as the “Third Position” or Evola’s brand of Perennialism on the far-Right, but I also agree with you that they are not on the “stereotypical right.” They are part of what one website has chosen for its name: an “Alternative Right.” But again pay attention to how much this remains connected to standard far-Right white nationalism--the Alternative Right website with its tributes to Evola and writing by the “Third Position anarchist” Keith Preston, has a Senior Contributing Editor Peter Brimelow of the racist and crudely anti-immigrant VDARE site. Again, we see difference as well as sameness.

Anyway, this is a bit on the rambling side, but I hope it makes sense.

antifascist

12/20/2010 3:52am

Nathan Carson / Nanotear:

Your statement about being available to dialog, as the tour draws to a close and everyone has made their money, comes across as unprincipled and dishonest. Just a few days ago you were having conniptions because you were getting telephone calls.

It remains reprehensible that you see no “real problems” with your promoting a fascist, exposing him to a broader audience, and financially enabling him. It likewise says a lot about Agalloch, that they have not even attempted to clarify their position, besides Aesop Dekker's flippant couple of words.

At this point, dialog with you serves no purpose. You have made your position clear. I hope at some point you realize what you have done and begin to make amends. As much as you try to play the victim, you have brought any fallout and lost support upon yourself.

antifascist

12/20/2010 4:51am

Anonymous writes: “There's not a single citation in those 90 that actually shows Petak delivering an 'extreme Right-wing message'.”

So Petak's endorsement of neo-völkisch positions, his celebration of the Iron Guard, his promotion of Varg Vikernes, and his statements of historical revisionism--all cited within the article, amongst other statements--are not “extreme Right-wing message[s]”?

By the way, because Petak is especially fond of the Iron Guard and says so in interviews, here's the Wikipedia entry about a bit of Iron Guard history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionnaires%27_rebellion_and_Bucharest_pogrom

Because Wikipedia can be a problematic source, I invite anyone who sees factual problems with this entry to raise them here. But this seems to be an okay historical overview.

Arrowyn

12/22/2010 10:37pm

the rest of my comment that got cut off from above on Fri, 17 Dec 2010 3:00:55 pm

....
In addition, not everyone requires that every person they "associate with" is a carbon copy of themselves. And you can't always have control over the beliefs or intelligence level of the people you have "ties" with, as some of the pro-antifa comments on this blog testify (it is interesting that despite your claim of not accusing Gerhard of being a Nazi…some of your commenters have drawn that exact conclusion without doubt from your statement – underscoring my above point about your use of innuendo and implication as a substitute for honest claims backed on sound argument).

What I am trying to say here is that while I know you would love to make everything clearly Black or White, the real world is not so easily segregated. While I don't know the intimate details of every person's politics in the Neofolk scene (nor would I want to) I have had personal experience with a lot of the people mentioned here and I have never heard a single word from any of them about race hatred, or fascism. Politics in general are not really discussed, and in my experience are basically considered irrelevant.

I take offense at people's flippant attitudes here, saying that it doesn't matter if your facts are straight, we should just trust your accusations, and besides these people are clearly fascists and therefore have no rights. "We don't dialogue with fascists." It smacks of the "war on terror" tactics of the US government.

These are people's lives you are meddling with here. While you may not support violence against them that doesn't mean that no one will. You are essentially putting people's lives, and the lives of their children in danger. Stop and think.

If you claim to be protecting our democracy you have to uphold it yourself.

And my final comment here about your allegations against Hex, as I've more productive things to do with my life…

Your creepy research into the personal life of my ex-editor is completely irrelevant. I haven't spoken to her in almost 3 years and she has absolutely no input in the magazine or its content. But even when she was involved her personal politics (whatever they are) played no role.

As I've already stated: We write about folk tradition, mythology, art, and cooking.

Politics not included.

Which you would know if you actually did accurate and thorough research.

Over and out.

freedomfigther

12/24/2010 3:42am

Comment from a Portland scenester 1932: A house painter and sometime artist A. Shickelgruber (sometimes known in certain scenes A Hitler or d. Fuher) is coming to Portland in a few months. His art shows will be the talk of the town. He's also written a book or two on German sociological questions, but nobody here in the good old English only USA can understand his German so we'll all go down to look at the pretty pictures and listen to the trilll of his magnificent manly voice. But it's not political. He even quotes a Jewish person. It's poetry and don't forget the art.
And to the small group of people who don't like this important non-political artist who we can't understand because he speaks German, well your as bad as ....
[This is where i leave off my parody because at that point we didn't know how bad fascism or Naziism was to become so therefore in that day we didn't have anything to compare the protesters and people complaining to. Today we know what Nazis and fascists did. And no, people complaining about fascists to booking agents as killling 12 million people in concentration camps.]

antifascist

12/27/2010 4:01am

Arrowyn:

Your attitude towards Rose City Antifascists' research seems insincere. First, you characterize the group’s output as “unsubstantiated assumptions” based on “supposed evidence.” Then, when additional documentation is brought forward for your benefit—even though the matter was not in significant doubt to begin with—this becomes to you “creepy research into […] personal life.” The idea that promotion of and support for an ideologically racist activist and Holocaust-denier is part of “personal life” and “personal politics,” raises the question of what, to you, would actually be fully political activity outside of the realm of “personal life.” Bear in mind that Rautmann broadcast her own support for Irving on the internet in a public way—it was not a private matter.

By consigning the far-Right activity of certain of Hex’s editors (ex-editor Rautmann, Wolff still) or contributors to the realm of the “personal,” this allows the magazine to maintain a stance of “Politics not included.” It also dodges what seems to be the important question to ask about the magazine—why does a project, on the face of it about “heathen” spirituality and culture, contain a distinct thread of contributors linked with the far-Right? Apart from Wolff and Petak, the list of contributors on the Hex website contains at least one explicit white nationalist (though not explicit in his Hex contribution), one person whose black metal project planned to release its first CD on a National Socialist Black Metal label (the release may have been cancelled or postponed), as well as the late Robert Ward, who edited the Vor Tru journal for the Ásatrú Alliance and who viewed the SS as “Pagans who were taking charge of their ancestral land.” While this may still be a minority amongst Hex contributors, it’s not an unnoticeably small amount… and this is just off the top of my head. As stated earlier, “Hex generally downplays or keeps out explicit politics in its content,” but the far-Right links, I would argue, are not completely accidental either. “Heathenism” itself is politically contested and in some varieties racially-charged—as you know, some Ásatrú groups are formally whites-only organizations. Hex could grapple with such issues in a serious way, but obviously with editorial voices such as Wolff, all such matters are going to be considered as “irrelevant” instead.

To return to the tiring topic of what Rose City Antifa allegedly imply in the article: the statement actually states precisely what it states. Its real statements would therefore seem to be the proper topic for discussion. The allegation that Rose City Antifascists want to make people believe that Gerhard Petak is a Nazi, through writing that “we do not describe him personally as a Nazi,” is rather perverse. It is true that some commentators have used the Nazi analogy regarding Petak (see the comment from “freedomfighter” below your own) but this is not a statement from the organization. The belief that questions of fascism and the far-Right can and should be reduced to Nazism and neo-Nazism is one that in no way actually benefits Rose City Antifa. As has been seen, this belief leads to the excuse that, because something is not strictly-speaking Nazi, that it also could not be fascist or far-Right, and that there is no problem. Why would Rose City Antifa go through the trouble of actually trying to situate Petak’s worldview in a broader context, if simply labelling him as a Nazi was their goal? Facts and political realism actually matter to the organization—anything else is an unstable basis for political activity. Rose City Antifa criticizes and opposes Petak for precisely the reasons outlined in the statement—not because he is a Nazi, but because he is on the far-Right with what seems to be a particular affinity towards the European New Right.

Steven DeCaprio link

01/02/2011 11:19pm

Hey, I appreciate the research. I'm not so big on the hostility toward Nathan and Agalloch since they didn't know this band were probably closet nazis until the week of the tour. That's hardly enough time to absorb all your research, verify it, and then confront the band before the tour would already be underway.

That said I would suggest that you add your research to Allerseelen's wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allerseelen).

It appears all the nazi references were deleted when it was transferred from German (the poster looks pretty sketchy too).

If you add your research to wikipedia then promoters in the future can simply run Allerseelen through a simple web search and discover these allegations. This may have been helpful to Nathan and Agalloch prior to this shit blowing up in their face.

As it stands it appears that neither Nathan nor Agalloch had any foreknowledge of this information.

Another thing I'm noticing is that some people feel that if someone simply denies being a nazi and never overtly claims to be a nazi then that is the end of the discussion.

I personally would not simply ask Allerseelen, "Are you guys Nazis?", but I would confront them on the specific allegations in your research such as, "Hey, what's up with the SS sun wheel" and "Why did you dedicate an album to a nazi propagandist."

I would imagine even nazis might deny being nazis if it meant getting kicked off a tour. More specific questions might be harder to weasel out from.

Why doesn't anyone ask these more direct questions to these guys. It's kind of frustrating because the back and forth seems to be very general and ignores some of these glaring contradictions.

Despite this I'm still on the fence about projecting what I would do personally in theory on what someone does in reality. I remember getting beat up by a bunch of nazis when I was a teenager while my friends stood by in shock, fear, etc.

I didn't stop being their friend over that, and later on people thought about it and ran the nazis out of Pensacola.Suffice to say I have mixed feelings about this type of situation.

Sometimes people don't know what to do in a particular situation, and saying what someone should or shouldn't do in that situation is a lot easier than actually doing it.

That said maybe you should take Nathan up on his offer to have a dialog. Maybe if you work with him he won't make this mistake in the future, and figure out some way to do some damage control coming out of this situation.

I would prefer that because working with Nathan to prevent nazi bands from perpetrating the scene would help everyone involved in the West Coast metal scene.

Antifa has the information and Nathan has the contacts. Combined this could be a potent force fighting creeping fascism.

On the other hand if you alienate Nathan then you will also deprive him of the information he needs to not repeat this mistake in the future, and thus antifa would undermine it's own mission.

Also, 17 pages seems a bit much. Your research is good, but your bloated analysis undermines your argument and is alienating to people who aren't interested in reading a disertation on the historical roots of modern european neo-fascism.

Aside from these minor criticisms I appreciate the work done to raise awareness to fight fascism. I only offer my critique in the hope that it may help antifa to be more effective in the future.

If any of you like metal check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwyJTlqXfPI

If you ever organize an antifascist metal fest let my band Embers know. There's a guy I know named Nathan who might help.

how to make a man fall in love with you link

02/28/2011 6:39pm

Excellent work always good to come across a really thoughtful site

Faina

04/25/2011 2:11pm

"In terms of class: I do not see more working class-based fascist projects (such as American Front or Volksfront, or the proletarian emphasis of a lot of the bonehead subculture) as being a threat, whereas upper middle class far-Right ventures are not. In fact, the more middle class and pseudo-intellectual projects are a real problem, due to their greater resources, respectability and even ability to influence popular discourse. (The example that leaps to mind is the Pioneer Fund’s sponsorship of research that was included as data for The Bell Curve, which in turn influenced national and even international discussions around race.)"

oh everything on here this boggled my mind the most. You are talking here about a TINY band in a TINY genre of music which less then .5% of people would be interested in, working with topic so obscure your average nazi person inmate with a swastika on his face would get bored in five minutes or less. You know what is the primary music audience for this band, since I have been aware of neofolk from 2004+? ex Goths. Goths or sometimes those BM people who get tired of listening to the same song 100 times over. These are 90% people who once had stupid nose rings and greasy mohawks.

I find this entire thing is frankly somewhat ridiculous when . This is coming from someone who does wholeheartly believe that Petak has crossed over from a passive fetishist/traditionalist to active participant in some aspects of compemtory far right idealogy, but does it matter? he has o political or social influence and his last CD that I heard (Edelweiss) sucked, although his older music is still amazing, almost to the level of Der Blutharsch.

honestly I havent been involved in neofolk for a LONG time but my experiences in Russia was that
everyone was friendly to me ( a jew with black hair and giant brooke shields eyebrows) however they were very much traditionalist obsessed with paganism/nazi history/the usual laundry list of neofolk subjects. Had I not been an attractive female who was also interested in the same things possibly the reaction might not have been as great, but also this was many years ago.

However I understand the feelings of some of the people here. look at the Alexei Belyiev Guintovt situation ( that fine artist version of these bands). AES+F are friends with him and defended him while they are CLEARLY left-leaning throughout their entire career, he himself has given mixed-messages as to his person beliefs, while he follows Alexander Dugin who believes Ukraine is part of Russia. I personally stopped being active in the scene because of this kind of duck-duck-goose BS. It takes too long to keep track of who is living in crazyland, who is friends with crazyland , and who is just an admirer of some tracks crazyland worked on back in 1994 before he was in crazyland. I still have deep admiration for Albin julius for not getting involved in this crap and keeping his mouth mostly shut.

NoToleranceForNaziScum

11/14/2011 3:49pm

Agalloch will play a gig in Tel Aviv. Guess the organizers are not aware that their drummer Aesop has repeatedly published NSBM records on his Cosmic Hearse blog:
http://cosmichearse.blogspot.com/search/label/NSBM

That makes them silent, passive enablers of the people propagating such hatred.
A german Blog made a good analysis of the sketchy artwork Agalloch uses:

http://laermstoerung.blogsport.de/2011/01/07/agalloch-gemuetlich-kuscheln-in-der-grauzone/

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